Brown hare sighting in Ireland

irish_hare · Brown hare sighting in Ireland

Lads,

I have a particular interest in hares. The Irish hare (Lepus timidus hibernicus) is widespread but I am trying to gather together sightings of brown hares (Lepus europaeus), properly referred to as the European hare and commonly called the 'Thrush or English hare'.

You guys might be interested in a paper on brown hare distribution in Ireland at http://www.ria.ie/cgi-bin/ria/papers/100670.pdf.

Browns are fairly easily identified and look quite different to Irish hares:

They are well known in Northern Ireland:

But their distribution in the ROI is unknown. I hear hushed tails of them in Balbriggan, Julianstown and near Mohill, Leitrim. They have also been seen near Inch Island, Donegal. But no one has ever produced concrete evidence of the species in the ROI.

If you have seen one, have a dead one in a freezer, have caught one or can catch/shot one I would love to hear from you.

Please e-mail me.
Cheers lads.

kevin_donegal

theres a small population of hares by me live right on the coast, look like that, will try and get a picture of one only see them once every couple months though.

DitchShitter

Irish Hare; Obviously, we've already communicated

Just to let ye know that I'm having a spot of bother with my own rifle right now (nothing unusual with that. The thing's known, ' affectionately' as " The Pig "!). But I've told my mate about the mission and, believe me, if that guy now sees anything resembling a Brown? It'll be in grave danger.

Maybe I should just take a deep breath and accept that, whilst I know where they are and what ground they'll be on. His rifle is zero'd better than mine right now - and his casings don't f*cking jam in the breech like mine are!

He's bugging me, every day, now to come out with him. He wants to bag a Brown. Ok. F*ck my pride. Soon as I get time, I'll go with him, show him where and what to look for. He's a crack shot and I'll let him bag the bugger. I'll just act as Guide.

Finding ye Posting here has just hardened my resolve to bring ye that Brown. I passed that very hill track only this evening. I thought of that afternoon. Bugger'll be harbouring on the other side of that hill.

My mate calls me tomorrow? I'll find time and show him a new style of hunting. We'll go deliberately looking for Brown

DitchShitter

" Irish Hare " ? I've just received a report that a L. europaeus was brought to hand a few hours ago, as I type, in the Nephin Beg Range, Co. Mayo. It's headed for a deep freezer.

Now that we're getting deadly serious here, perhaps ye'd be kind enough as to let all concerned know a little more about who ye are and represent?

Thankyou.

irish_hare · Brown hare in Mayo

My name is Dr. Neil Reid and I am a Zoologist working in Queen's University Belfast. I have studied hares for over 6 years now and completed a PhD thesis on the species.

I am particularly interested in locating brown hare populations. I recently authored a paper (see http://www.ria.ie/cgi-bin/ria/papers/100670.pdf) on the the brown hare in Ireland but have yet to confirm that it exists in the ROI though I have strong suspicions the species is widespread.

If anybody can point me in the right direction it will be those people in the countryside with a sporting interest in hares like yourselves. I am aware that outsiders and those from official bodies can often be treated with suspicion, however, I will treat any information you may provide in the strictest confidence.

I have studied all aspects of hare ecology but I suspect the study that will interest you men most will be one on hare coursing. I cannot figure out how to attach the whole pdf file here but you can read more about the coursing study at http://www.qub.ac.uk/home/TheUniv.../11-2007PressReleases/#d.en.86604 or http://www.ingentaconnect.com/con.../2007/00000016/00000004/art00002.

If anybody knows of a brown hares anywhere or can provide me with a carcass I would be most interested. So if anybody has information I would be very interested to talk to you. Please post here or private message me and I can provide my telephone contact details.

This all seems very promising.
Many thanks,
Neil.

Macnas

Our help was used against us before, in very similar circumstances.

But, if Ditch is willing to assist, then perhaps some accommodation is possible. I've read the Quercus report, and found no bias in it, so that's also reassuring.

I'm not sure I've seen brown hares down here in Cork. Sometimes I'm looking at 5 or 6 of them thundering around like a herd of cattle and wondering whether or not they might be browns, then later on in the year when they split up I see them with mottled white patches, indicating Irish hares ( I think).
If a fellow had time and resource, observing then would be easy enough. They tend to stay in the same 30 odd acre patch for most of the time, in my experience.

I've only ever shot a hare once, and that was a mistake when I was 13, a long time ago. It's taboo to shoot them down here, they are for the hounds and are generally left alone otherwise.

irish_hare · Objectivity

Disappointingly I have been frequently met with suspicion by those involved in field sports. This is particularly frustrating as those in the countryside with an sporting interest in hares are best placed to point me in the right direction.

Previous studies, particularly the study on hare coursing involving the Irish Coursing Club (ICC) should demonstrate I we deal with these issues objectively and with no prior agenda. My only interests are in finding out where brown hares occur.

If anybody can help me locate areas where sightings can be authenticated or can provide carcasses that would be most useful and I would be most grateful. Any and all information will be treated in the strictest confidence.

DitchShitter

Ok, Neil; You're The Daddy, alright! That was just the e mail addy I was looking for

Just sent ye some shots of our furry friend, mate. Plus a summary account of some pertinent detail. Look out for one from " Traps ". Check ye Spam folder too as I use Yahoo and it could end up there.

Ye'll have to excuse our manner around strangers. Field Sports are under sly and dirty attacks from all sorts these days. Most all of us, if we haven't been burned ourselves, know plenty who have been.

I know your work of old ~ most impressive, actually ~ ye get the Thumbs Up from me.

irish_hare

Thank you 'Ditch' your photos look very convincing.

For anybody else interested here are the differences between both species from side view:

and from the rear:

Brown hares have no winter whitening on them at all, so the underside is always brown nor do their ears have white rims.

Macnas

Dr.Reid, it may be disappointing, but it's a fact that coursing men up North helped in a study of hare numbers, and after that the evidence regarding hare populations was mis-used by biased parties to further the anti-country sport agenda.

Not your fault, you can say with a clear conscience. However, I didn't hear of anyone from the scientific community speaking up and pointing out that it was deliberate misinterpretation.
Before the lads up North knew it the hare was endangered and it was all because of hunting, so they banned it.

And the upsurge in hare numbers thereafter? Well it must be because we stopped hunting hares mustn't it? Result!
And once again, no voice from the people responsible for the data pointing out the cherry-picking of numbers and the disregard for the actual probable reasons.

I know, you want to do your research and it's a good that someone is taking such an interest for such pure reasons, and you don't want to get involved in any political debate, you want to be neutral, just the facts type of thing.
A cynical man might suggest that no scientist/research fellow wants to piss off anyone who could influence funding and support. But that would be very cynical wouldn’t it.

Of course we're suspicious, of course we're hesitant to assist, who the hell wouldn't be.

irish_hare

I disagree with your reasoning. Both sides of the hunting debate are guilty of promoting their own agenda and both have emotively and deliberately used cherry-picked 'facts' in their own favour.

The scientific community must remain impartial. I cannot monitor all the newspapers in order to write letters of correction every time someone with an opinion, right or wrong, expresses it nor can I be held responsible for how others interpret, rightly or wrongly, my research.

Furthermore, I disagree with your main point. Hare coursing was not banned in the North because of the misuse of scientific information or the co-operation of the Dungannon Coursing Club with Queen's University. There was, at the time, genuine concern for the Irish hare population following a number of population surveys which were quite separate from the study in which the Dungannon Coursing Club were involved. The incumbent Minister for the Environment at the time, who was previously affiliated with the anti-hunting lobby, took a personal interest in the matter and a Special Protection Order was put in place. In fact, the study conducted by Queen’s in collaboration with the Dungannon Club demonstrated that the majority of the coursed hares released back into the wild survived (though admittedly only small numbers were tracked). All this information was subsequently presented by Queen’s at a judicial review of the Special Protection Order.

Nevertheless, since then we have conducted a formal examination of hare coursing and published our research in the peer-review literature. See the Press Release entitled “Coursing no threat to Irish hare population say Queen's academics” at http://www.qub.ac.uk/home/TheUniv...11-2007PressReleases/#d.en.86604. This study demonstrates that openness, transparency and co-operation are of great benefit.

Hare populations fluctuate naturally from year to year and no great emphasis should be put on short term increases or decreases. Coursing removes a negligible percentage of the population. The facts speak for themselves regardless of how either side of the hunting debate attempt to use them. This is the virtue, and great power, of scientific objectivity and impartiality.

Personally I feel your skepticism is unjustified. As previously stated, my only interests here are to locate brown hares and I am here because I recognize that you men represent my best chance of doing so.

It is unfortunate that your post may end up dissuading others from helping me in my search.

Macnas

Dr. Reid,

Every person here is more than capable of making up their own mind, I'm outspoken in these matters but my points and reasoning are my own. I don't set out to convince people of anything, nor mislead them or pretend to be something I'm not.

Your "hey, coursing is actually ok" report was a bit late in coming in my opinion, but at least ye put it out.

I don't say what I say to sully your reputation, nor to denigrate your research or your attempts at same.
But I do think your request for the help of the people who course and hunt should come with a warning something like such as is on the cigarettes I smoke. "Warning, your help may be used against you at some stage, but not by me, cos I'm impartial."

kevin_donegal

[quote="irish_hare"]Thank you 'Ditch' your photos look very convincing.

For anybody else interested here are the differences between both species from side view:

yep ive seen one of those.
I wasnt sure with the first picture but thats def the species , only ever seen one that i can confirm but maybe another that was farther off.

will try and get a pick for you when my telephoto lense gets repaired.

are they found by costal areas much?

irish_hare

The distribution of the brown hare is largely unknown. They have only been confirmed in mid-Ulster and on the Northern Irish side of the border at Strabane.

Sightings have been reported from the ROI side of the border at Lifford and also near Inch Island, Inishbofin. There are also rumours of them being present near Balbriggan, North Dublin and Julianstown, South Louth. 'Ditch' reports them from near Mohill, Leitrim and another contact is giving me a carcass from Mayo. However, all the latter is anecdotal until we can get our hands on evidence; either a high quality photograph with an exact location (grid reference) and date or preferably a carcass for DNA testing.

Brown hares are more associated with agriculture more than Irish hares. They are common in arable crops and pasture but tend to frequent boggy moorland or high uplands less than the Irish hare who can stick the tough conditions better. Coastal habitats present little difficulties to either species.

Brown and Irish hares can actually interbreed and the hybrids look much like the brown hares. So I am really keen on getting my hands on tissue to do some DNA testing.

jiff

not entirely sure i understand this thread, encourage the hares to breed, ask the farmer or pay him to leave a bit of set aside, arround the perimeter alot of leverets are combined during harvest they either cannot escape the machinery, early harvest or are incapable the second litter, as you know leverets are droped to fend foer them selves, do away with the fox population give them a chance against machinery and you have every chance of a decent population for youre grandson

Bryan

Guys this guy spoke to the Irish masters of beagles association this year, for no fee i believe and was very well received by a skeptical audience.

I think that hunting people should have little to fear from science. Good science has never been used to ban hunting, it's just been political maneuvering.
Hare hunting in the north was banned by a minister who was a member of the ,league against cruel sports! she's hardly concerned with science.

i think any genuine countryman should be interested in the spread on brown hares and the Risk to the Irish hare of hybridisation.
Bryan

Brown hare sighting in Ireland

Brown hare in Mayo

Objectivity